Tribe.net. Local Connections evrk http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/7ab3db3d-ed0b-41f8-a282-dd0836dd2128 2007-09-24T00:46:18Z 2006-12-30T18:03:48Z

<div>Die to the past. Live in the moment. <br/>Mind is a bundle of thoughts. <br/>Thought is word. <br/>You are the world. <br/>What is and what should be. <br/> <br/>The sparks of insights from J. Krishnamurti made people silent within and made aware of one's consciousness to oneself. <br/> <br/>J. Krishnamurti's books are source of solace and insight to most people with intellectual bent. His books collection in its entirety will form a library of its own. <br/> <br/>Many of us have good number of Krishnaji's books collected over the years. Carrying these books on tours, travels and transfers is often cumbersome. It is also difficult to remember in which book and page those inspiring passages and words were read and underlined. Even bookmarks are often difficult to locate in print editions. <br/> <br/>Also the collection can be never complete due to out of print or out of stock situations. <br/> <br/>How about having a CD-ROM containing entire library of JK's book collection. Which we can carry with us on our travels and tours. Also it is easy to locate any word, topic with the full text search function with a click of the mouse. <br/> <br/>CD-ROM of complete works, books, writingsof J. Krishnamurt---ever published and unpublished can be your lifelong source of solace, guidance and reference on what J.K ever spoke on consciouseness and on day to day mundane issues. <br/> <br/> <br/>http://www.rajneeshbooks.com/J.Jiddu.Krishnamurti/index.htm</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 1 reply </div>

evrk 2006-12-30T18:03:48Z lodha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/8386559f-197c-4bc2-9044-d60cf148dc6d 2007-09-24T00:16:38Z 2007-03-24T03:55:56Z

<div>"The mind has to be empty to see clearly." <br/> <br/>"The little book on LIVING: J.Krishnamurti.", published Montville (Queensland)</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 1 reply </div>

lodha 2007-03-24T03:55:56Z nothingnu http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/342e91b9-7a5e-4c3a-896b-d72a87127980 2007-09-24T00:16:00Z 2007-04-10T13:21:09Z

<div>What could be an accurate model or representation of the human organism? Quite often, when we think or feel about ourselves or others around us, we do so in terms of entities or images that have attributes/characteristics which may or may not change under situational/environmental demands. However, what we realize in practice, is that this model is quite inadequate and falls short of accurately portraying and predicting our own as well as others' behavior. Despite the shortfall, the human organism continues to rely on thoughts, senses, and emotions as arbiters of measurement of reality. Through out our lives, we struggle because we believe that somehow we are insufficient or lacking in abstracting the "right" representation and if we "analyze" or "look deeper, further, and harder", we will be able to eventually "perceive" the correct model/image. <br/> <br/>But what are we "perceiving?" The human organism is activated/moved/motivated by several interactions of its sense, which are themselves a representational memory of its evolutionary past and its faculties of thought and emotion, which are yet again, based on memory. These senses and faculties, collect nourishment, both physically and psychologically, from within and without to sustain themselves and hence, the whole organism. We can conceive and actually see human beings lacking in one or two senses or faculties (emotional autism, severe mental retardation, etc.) but usually consider one a "vegetable" if one is deprived of all of them. <br/> <br/>As we modulate in time from blastula to apoptosis or senescence, these senses and faculties, individually and collectively, cooperate and compete, within a dynamic range of response. And because our thought has predetermined categories within this modulation, and has come up with milestones of health, we assume that as long as those milestones are reached, somehow, there must be an over-riding coherence in all of this - a "homeostasis" within and perhaps, by inference, without. But really, is there such as thing as "homeostasis" outside of human thought? <br/> <br/>A physically healthy person by measures of medicine may be psychologically brimming with anger, jealousy, greed, craving, etc., and vice versa. Again, we have created measures of how much greed, selfishness, jealousy is "normal." Senses quite often override chemical and physical devastation of organ systems within, with the result that the person is oblivious to silent diseases with in and is "acting" to promote them, e.g., diabetus, cancer, heart disease, etc. These senses could also be influenced by thought and emotions and vice versa. So amongst this melee of the past attempting to exert its influence on the present, what is the raison d'etre of awareness? <br/> <br/>Notice awareness is the only thing (whatever one wants to call it, faculty, sense, or something else) unique that actually delineates time but not as we know it. This may sound ironic but really there is no "now" without awareness. Time is a continuum for all the other senses and faculties. We may say, present, past, and future but really, what is present but the past? What is future but the present modified by the past? The senses and faculties do not stop at "now" or "given an impulse" react. They are continually responding in time - continually. Life does not present experiments like in the animal laboratories to look at responses within truncated intervals of chronological time and prepare conclusions on powerpoint as if the immediate past is separate from the distant or geological past and the immediate future separate from the geological future. <br/> <br/>So everything within a human or a living organism is a continuous function in time, which itself is a created entity of how thought perceives "awareness." When we "become conscious of the now" into which the senses and faculties of thought and emotion are flowing, that is what can create a "stepping out of time", out of the flow, heck out of the continuity. That awareness has NO past or future as we define time. It is only NOW! The mistake our faculty of thought does is to categorize the uncategorizable "now" and create a psychological and chronolgical past prior to "now" and a future post "now". But really, all such time is simply non-awareness. <br/> <br/>In the NOW, a branch of a huge tree can be aware of the hundreds of distinctive other branches both within and other "types" of trees, and see, that while to the senses and the faculties of thought and emotion, all appear different, they point to not only a seed from which all have arisen but to a continuity in time from which all seeds had to have taken birth. A reflection of this can only be a concept but only in awareness can a being act to live as a whole within and without.</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 1 reply </div>

nothingnu 2007-04-10T13:21:09Z shaman sun http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/aa7a52bc-a616-43e7-89c7-5d7285db9737 2007-04-23T05:32:35Z 2007-04-20T06:45:50Z

<div>How are we bringing our unconscious to our consciousness? This is important if we are to see our conditioning, and how we are not merely our conditioned selves . . . How do each of us do this?</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 1 reply </div>

shaman sun 2007-04-20T06:45:50Z Esotareq 3.0 Alpha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/0057ac63-e7e7-480c-a6f7-10f983b15567 2007-03-18T06:04:40Z 2007-03-18T06:04:40Z

<div>If any one is interested the KFA will be doing a small meet and greet next weekend in Oakland...check it out: <br/> <br/>Sunday, March 25, 2007 at 2:30 p.m <br/>Address: 568 Bellevue Avenue, Oakland, California <br/>Parking: $3 per vehicle, or reachable by municipal transit lines <br/>Guest speaker: Mark Lee, Executive Director of the KFA <br/>Cost: Free <br/> <br/>Enjoy <br/> <br/>T</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

Esotareq 3.0 Alpha 2007-03-18T06:04:40Z mmphosis http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/c0679dbe-da99-45ab-9a88-dc9b6fec3882 2007-03-02T19:54:00Z 2007-03-02T01:35:04Z

<div>listen <br/>I mean really listen <br/>listen to what I am saying</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 3 replies </div>

mmphosis 2007-03-02T01:35:04Z lodha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/e49606fa-4a74-4a87-8272-03f82d7883ba 2007-02-20T04:16:19Z 2007-01-21T16:28:40Z

<div> <br/>"Without the understanding of pleasure you will never be able to understand love. Love is not pleasure. Love is something entirely different. And to understand pleasure, as I said, you have to learn about it. Now for most of us, for every human being, sex is a problem. Why? Listen to this very carefully. Because you are not able to solve it, you run away from it. The sannyasi runs away from it by taking a vow of celibacy, by denying. Please see what happens to such a mind. By denying something which is a part of your whole structure - the glands and so on - by suppressing it, you have made yourself arid, and there is a constant battle going on within yourself. <br/> <br/>As we were saying, we have only two ways of meeting any problem, apparently: either suppressing it or running away from it. Suppressing it is really the same thing as running away from it. And we have a whole network of escapes - very intricate, intellectual, emotional - and ordinary everyday activity. There are various forms of escapes into which we will not go for the moment. But we have this problem. The sannyasi escapes from it in one way, but he has not resolved it; he has suppressed it by taking a vow, and the whole problem is boiling in him. He may put on the outward robe of simplicity, but this becomes an extraordinary issue for him too, as it is for the man who lives an ordinary life. How do you solve that problem?" <br/> <br/>"Love Is Not Pleasure" - The Book of Life (November 22) </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 10 replies </div>

lodha 2007-01-21T16:28:40Z lodha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/70631de8-2469-45cc-8cbe-2516489ab4ea 2007-01-21T01:36:33Z 2007-01-21T01:36:33Z

<div> <br/> <br/> <br/> <br/> When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind. <br/>-- J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp. 51-52 </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

lodha 2007-01-21T01:36:33Z lodha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/8f7016c8-66fe-459a-8f71-1bb79209d1cb 2007-01-03T02:17:46Z 2007-01-03T02:17:46Z

<div>when the things outside us become of great meaning, we are inwardly poverty-ridden. <br/>-- J. Krishnamurti, The Only Revolution, 1970, p. 146 <br/>(from The Second Penguin Krishnamurti Reader) </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

lodha 2007-01-03T02:17:46Z lodha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/90bf63d5-6922-487f-bdd9-a4e38688dccd 2006-12-31T02:23:06Z 2006-12-31T02:23:06Z

<div>It is tradition, the accumulation of experience, the ashes of memory, that make the mind old. The mind that dies every day to the memories of yesterday, to all the joys and sorrows of the past--such a mind is fresh, innocent, it has no age; and without that innocence, whether you are ten or sixty, you will not find God. <br/>-- J. Krishnamurti, Think on These Things </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

lodha 2006-12-31T02:23:06Z lodha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/a695c617-3db2-4456-8414-01fb2d908280 2006-12-27T11:17:50Z 2006-12-21T13:02:00Z

<div> <br/> <br/> <br/> <br/> When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind. <br/>-- J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp. 51-52 </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 2 replies </div>

lodha 2006-12-21T13:02:00Z lodha http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/4ecef040-f796-48f9-9809-fab1eb7f0ea3 2006-12-19T03:37:01Z 2006-12-18T12:45:15Z

<div> <br/>The demand to be safe in relationship inevitably breeds sorrow and fear. This seeking for security is inviting insecurity. Have you ever found security in any of your relationships? Have you? Most of us want the security of loving and being loved, but is there love when each one of us is seeking his own security, his own particular path? <br/> <br/>We are not loved because we don't know how to love. What is love? The word is so loaded and corrupted that I hardly like to use it. Everybody talks of love - every magazine and newspaper and every missionary talks everlastingly of love. I love my country, I love my king, I love some book, I love that mountain, I love pleasure, I love my wife, I love God. Is love an idea? If it is, it can be cultivated, nourished, cherished, pushed around, twisted in any way you like. When you say you love God what does it mean? It means that you love a projection of your own imagination, a projection of yourself clothed in certain forms of respectability according to what you think is noble and holy; so to say, `I love God', is absolute nonsense. When you worship God you are worshipping yourself - and that is not love. <br/> <br/>Because we cannot solve this human thing called love we run away into abstractions. Love may be the ultimate solution to all man's difficulties, problems and travails, so how are we going to find out what love is? By merely defining it? The church has defined it one way, society another, and there are all sorts of deviations and perversions. Adoring someone, sleeping with someone, the emotional exchange, the companionship - is that what we mean by love? That has been the norm, the pattern, and it has become so tremendously personal, sensuous, and limited that religions have declared that love is something much more than this. In what they call human love they see there is pleasure, competition, jealousy, the desire to possess, to hold, to control and to interfere with another's thinking, and knowing the complexity of all this they say there must be another kind of love, divine, beautiful, untouched, uncorrupted. <br/> <br/>Throughout the world, so-called holy men have maintained that to look at a woman is something totally wrong: they say you cannot come near to God if you indulge in sex, therefore they push it aside although they are eaten up with it. But by denying sexuality they put out their eyes and cut out their tongues for they deny the whole beauty of the earth. They have starved their hearts and minds; they are dehydrated human beings; they have banished beauty because beauty is associated with woman. <br/> <br/>Can love be divided into the sacred and the profane, the human and the divine, or is there only love? Is love of the one and not of the many? If I say,`I love you', does that exclude the love of the other? Is love personal or impersonal? Moral or immoral? Family or non-family? If you love mankind can you love the particular? Is love sentiment? Is love emotion? Is love pleasure and desire? All these questions indicate, don't they, that we have ideas about love, ideas about what it should or should not be, a pattern or a code developed by the culture in which we live. <br/>So to go into the question of what love is we must first ideals and ideologies of what it should or should not be. To divide anything into what should be and what is, is the most deceptive way of dealing with life. <br/> <br/> Now how am I going to find out what this flame is which we call love - not how to express it to another but what it means in itself? I will first reject what the church, what society, what my parents and friends, what every person and every book has said about it because I want to find out for myself what it is. Here is an enormous problem that involves the whole of mankind, there have been a thousand ways of defining it and I myself am caught in some pattern or other according to what I like or enjoy at the moment - so shouldn't I, in order to understand it, first free myself from my own inclinations and prejudices? I am confused, torn by my own desires, so I say to myself, `First clear up your own confusion. Perhaps you may be able to discover what love is through what it is not.' <br/> <br/> The government says, `Go and kill for the love of your country'. Is that love? Religion says, `Give up sex for the love of God'. Is that love? Is love desire? Don't say no. For most of us it is – desire with pleasure, the pleasure that is derived through the senses, through sexual attachment and fulfilment. I am not against sex, but see what is involved in it. What sex gives you momentarily is the total abandonment of yourself, then you are back again with your turmoil, so you want a repetition over and over again of that state in which there is no worry, no problem, no self. You say you love your wife. In that love is involved sexual pleasure, the pleasure of having someone in the house to look after your children, to cook. You depend on her; she has given you her body, her emotions, her encouragement, a certain feeling of security and well-being. Then she turns away from you; she gets bored or goes off with someone else, and your whole emotional balance is destroyed, and this disturbance, which you don't like, is called jealousy. There is pain in it, anxiety, hate and violence. So what you are really saying is, `As long as you belong to me I love you but the moment you don't I begin to hate you. As long as I can rely on you to satisfy my demands, sexual and otherwise, I love you, but the moment you cease to supply what I want I don't like you.' So there is antagonism between you, there is separation, and when you feel separate from another there is no love. But if you can live with your wife without thought creating all these contradictory states, these endless quarrels in yourself, then perhaps - perhaps - you will know what love is. Then you are completely free and so is she, whereas if you depend on her for all your pleasure you are a slave to her. So when one loves there must be freedom, not only from the other person but from oneself. <br/> <br/> This belonging to another, being psychologically nourished by another, depending on another - in all this there must always be anxiety, fear, jealousy, guilt, and so long as there is fear there is no love; a mind ridden with sorrow will never know what love is; sentimentality and emotionalism have nothing whatsoever to do with love. And so love is not to do with pleasure and desire. <br/> <br/> Love is not the product of thought which is the past. Thought cannot possibly cultivate love. Love is not hedged about and caught in jealousy, for jealousy is of the past. Love is always active present. It is not `I will love' or `I have loved'. If you know love you will not follow anybody. Love does not obey. When you love there is neither respect nor disrespect. Don't you know what it means really to love somebody - to love without hate, without jealousy, without anger, without wanting to interfere with what he is doing or thinking, without condemning, without comparing - don't you know what it means? Where there is love is there comparison? When you love someone with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your body, with your entire being, is there comparison? When you totally abandon yourself to that love there is not the other. <br/> <br/> Does love have responsibility and duty, and will it use those words? When you do something out of duty is there any love in it? In duty there is no love. The structure of duty in which the human being is caught is destroying him. So long as you are compelled to do something because it is your duty you don't love what you are doing. When there is love there is no duty and no responsibility. <br/> <br/> Most parents unfortunately think they are responsible for their children and their sense of responsibility takes the form of telling them what they should do and what they should not do, what they should become and what they should not become. The parents want their children to have a secure position in society. What they call responsibility is part of that respectability they worship; and it seems to me that where there is respectability there is no order; they are concerned only with becoming a perfect bourgeois. When they prepare their children to fit into society they are perpetuating war, conflict and brutality. Do you call that care and love? Really to care is to care as you would for a tree or a plant, watering it, studying its needs, the best soil for it, looking after it with gentleness and tenderness - but when you prepare your childrren to fit into society you are preparing them to be killed. If you loved your children you would have no war. When you lose someone you love you shed tears - are your tears for yourself or for the one who is dead? Are you crying for yourself or for another? Have you ever cried for another? Have you ever cried for your son who is killed on the battlefield? You have cried, but do those tears come out of self-pity or have you cried because a human being has been killed? If you cry out of self-pity your tears have no meaning because you are concerned about yourself. If you are crying because you are bereft of one in whom you have invested a great deal of affection, it was not really affection. When you cry for your brother who dies cry for him. It is very easy to cry for yourself because he is gone. Apparently you are crying because your heart is touched, but it is not touched for him, it is only touched by self- pity and self-pity makes you hard, encloses you, makes you dull and stupid. <br/> <br/> When you cry for yourself, is it love - crying because you are lonely, because you have been left, because you are no longer powerful - complaining of your lot, your environmment - always you in tears? If you understand this, which means to come in contact with it as directly as you would touch a tree or a pillar or a hand, then you will see that sorrow is self-created, sorrow is created by thought, sorrow is the outcome of time. I had my brother three years ago, now he is dead, now I am lonely, aching, there is no one to whom I can look for comfort or companionship, and it brings tears to my eyes. You can see all this happening inside yourself if you watch it. You can see it fully, completely, in one glance, not take analytical time over it. You can see in a moment the whole structure and nature of this shoddy little thing called `me', my tears, my family, my nation, my belief, my religion - all that ugliness, it is all inside you. When you see it with your heart, not with your mind, when you see it from the very bottom of your heart, then you have the key that will end sorrow. Sorrow and love cannot go together, but in the Christian world they have idealized suffering, put it on a cross and worshipped it, implying that you can never escape from suffering except through that one particular door, and this is the whole structure of an exploiting religious society. <br/>So when you ask what love is, you may be too frightened to see the answer. It may mean complete upheaval; it may break up the family; you may discover that you do not love your wife or husband or children - do you? - you may have to shatter the house you have built, you may never go back to the temple. <br/> <br/> But if you still want to find out, you will see that fear is not love, dependence is not love, jealousy is not love, possessiveness and domination are not love, responsibility and duty are not love, self-pity is not love, the agony of not being loved is not love, love is not the opposite of hate any more than humility is the opposite of vanity. So if you can eliminate all these, not by forcing them but by washing them away as the rain washes the dust of many days from a leaf, then perhaps you will come upon this strange flower which man always hungers after. If you have not got love - not just in little drops but in abundance if you are not filled with it - the world will go to disaster. You know intellectually that the unity of mankind is essential and that love is the only way, but who is going to teach you how to love? Will any authority, any method, any system, tell you how to love? If anyone tells you, it is not love. Can you say, `I will practise love. I will sit down day after day and think about it. I will practise being kind and gentle and force myself to pay attention to others?' <br/> <br/> Do you mean to say that you can discipline yourself to love, exercise the will to love? When you exercise discipline and will to love, love goes out of the window. By practising some method or system of loving you may become extraordinarily clever or more kindly or get into a state of non-violence, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with love. <br/> <br/> In this torn desert world there is no love because pleasure and desire play the greatest roles, yet without love your daily life has no meaning. And you cannot have love if there is no beauty. Beauty is not something you see - not a beautiful tree, a beautiful picture, a beautiful building or a beautiful woman. There is beauty only when your heart and mind know what love is. Without love and that sense of beauty there is no virtue, and you know very well that, do what you will, improve society, feed the poor, you will only be creating more mischief, for without love there is only ugliness and poverty in your own heart and mind. But when there is love and beauty, whatever you do is right, whatever you do is in order. If you know how to love, then you can do what you like because it will solve all other problems. So we reach the point: can the mind come upon love without discipline, without thought, without enforcement, without any book, any teacher or leader - come upon it as one comes upon a lovely sunset? It seems to me that one thing is absolutely necessary and that is passion without motive - passion that is not the result of some commitment or attachment, passion that is not lust. A man who does not know what passion is will never know love because love can come into being only when there is total self-abandonment. A mind that is seeking is not a passionate mind and to come upon love without seeking it is the only way to find it - to come upon it unknowingly and not as the result of any effort or experience. Such a love, you will find, is not of time; such a love is both personal and impersonal, is both the one and the many. Like a flower that has perfume you can smell it or pass it by. That flower is for everybody and for the one who takes trouble to breathe it deeply and look at it with delight. Whether one is very near in the garden, or very far away, it is the same to the flower because it is full of that perfume and therefore it is sharing with everybody. <br/> <br/> Love is something that is new, fresh, alive. It has no yesterday and no tomorrow. It is beyond the turmoil of thought. It is only the innocent mind which knows what love is, and the innocent mind can live in the world which is not innocent. To find this extraordinary thing which man has sought endlessly through sacrifice, through worship, through relationship, through sex, through every form of pleasure and pain, is only possible when thought comes to understand itself and comes naturally to an end. Then love has no opposite, then love has no conflict. You may ask, `If I find such a love, what happens to my wife, my children, my family? They must have security.' When you put such a question you have never been outside the field of thought, the field of consciousness. When once you have been outside that field you will never ask such a question because then you will know what love is in which there is no thought and therefore no time. You may read this mesmerized and enchanted, but actually to go beyond thought and time - which means going beyond sorrow - is to be aware that there is a different dimension called love. But you don't know how to come to this extraordinary fount - so what do you do? If you don't know what to do, you do nothing, don't you? Absolutely nothing. Then inwardly you are completely silent. Do you understand what that means? It means that you are not seeking, not wanting, not pursuing; there is no centre at all. Then there is love. <br/> <br/> -1980 <br/> <br/> <br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br/> <br/>Question: I am full of hate. Will you please teach me how to love? <br/> <br/>K: No one can teach you how to love. If people could be taught how to love, the world problem would be very simple, would it not? If we could learn how to love from a book as we learn mathematics, this would be a marvelous world; there would be no hate, no exploitation, no wars, no division of rich and poor, and we would all be really friendly with each other. But love is not so easily come by. It is easy to hate, and hate brings people together after a fashion; it creates all kinds of fantasies, it brings about various types of co-operation, as in war. But love is much more difficult. You cannot learn how to love, but what you can do is to observe hate and put it gently aside. Don't battle against hate, don't say how terrible it is to hate people, but see hate for what it is and let it drop away; brush it aside, it is not important. What is important is not to let hate take root in your mind. Do you understand? Your mind is like rich soil, and if given sufficient time any problem that comes along takes root like a weed, and then you have the trouble of pulling it out; but if you do not give the problem sufficient time to take root, then it has no place to grow and it will wither away. If you encourage hate, give it time to take root, to grow, to mature, it becomes an enormous problem. But if each time hate arises you let it go by, then you will find that your mind becomes very sensitive without being sentimental; therefore it will know love. <br/> <br/>The mind can pursue sensations, desires, but it cannot pursue love. Love must come to the mind. And, when once love is there, it has no division as sensuous and divine: it is love. That is the extraordinary thing about love: it is the only quality that brings a total comprehension of the whole of existence. <br/> <br/>Think on these things, 1964, pp 62-63 </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 1 reply </div>

lodha 2006-12-18T12:45:15Z beginnermind http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/fa015687-848b-40c0-b1fd-310544ef0e0a 2006-10-21T00:28:43Z 2005-07-25T19:13:11Z

<div>Hi, i just joined this service and thought we could discuss this core teaching: <br/>"Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man’s pretense that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity." <br/>i have quoted this many times and it is very basic but it seems that most people cannot grasp the idea...even friends who like JK's work. <br/>-bmind</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 6 replies </div>

beginnermind 2005-07-25T19:13:11Z http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/3867cf42-a9da-4916-82ba-5ebc876f4a03 2006-09-24T14:26:51Z 2006-03-17T15:23:53Z

<div>>Humans began to idolize and worship their beliefs. They grew attached to the thoughts that they felt could cushion them from the fearful necessities of living. Their thoughts became crutches which they could always fall backon. Like cripples, many humans began to cling to their beliefs desperately.Beliefs were treated like possessions. Fearful that some outside group with different beliefs might deprive them of their mental possessions, many ofthem were prepared to fight and die for the products of their own nervoussystems.&lt; <br/> <br/>http://www.uni-giessen.de/~gk1415/krishnaji.htm <br/> <br/>some tribes on tribe.net are extremely worshipping their believes - did you notice that ? <br/></div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 6 replies </div>

2006-03-17T15:23:53Z nothingnu http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/16698136-45fd-4523-942a-2386440be6ae 2006-05-14T21:08:57Z 2006-05-14T21:08:57Z

<div>The drone of our lives is a self-creation born out of a lack which creates a need and then a necessity into which senses, thoughts, emotions, experiences, memories, knowledge flow to create a reality so concrete that subtle rhythms of nature (let's call it actuality) appears abstract in the background whenever there is a breakthrough within our reality. In general, actuality seems absent in the midst of a forceful presence of reality continually trying to assert itself. We look around in human history and are amazed at so few individuals having had contact with this subtlety and hence, we deem its presence impossible and separate from us. However, more shocking is how much energy is expended in each moment through each individual's life to maintain the facade of the necessity. <br/> <br/>Every strong emotion, action, etc. is created with the rationale that it is necessarily so. Everything we do or feel, we cannot do otherwise. That is what our mind and bodies tell us in the moment. Interestingly if that is truly so, why do we then justify or condemn every such movement? Perhaps, because deep down we are aware of the artificialness of the need created by the thought/knowledge/emotion/experience/memory complex, and hence, as human beings and societies we have created norms with boundaries of how artificial we can be. How far can we deviate from actuality. We thus justify or condemn ourselves to either illustrate that we are within the bounds or accept that we extended them. <br/> <br/>If we take a look at why we are hurt, angry, needy, desirous, obsessed, we see that all such emotions have a built-in urgency within that is self-created and unreal and takes us away on an illusory road. What is the urgency born out of? Usually the only time in the actual world, anything is urgent is when there is a threat to the physical survival of the organism. Protection from an actual physical threat is immensely life-affirming - a joyous denial of death. Is this what one is hooked on? Notice that if an organism learns how to cry "wolf" all the time to seek protection, whether there is an actual threat or not, it would soon become insensitive to threats of all kind not knowing when it is actual or not. So, to continue the illusion of threat and hence, feign the joy of survival, strong emotions are accompanied with the created urgency which gives an individual, a concrete feeling of reality and solidity. So even though realistically, if we look at our lives retrospectively, we see so many of those urgencies as false, the urgencies of now - 'I must have this sexual encounter or car or drink', ' I must show this person his place', 'why does she hurt me?', etc. , seem all too real again for they are either accompanied by a solid pleasure or pain and hence, we easily forget that the urgency was merely a creation. <br/> <br/>Pride, honor, trust and their counterparts are totally abstract self-created values to perhaps, make communal living easy. However, those abstract values have taken a concreteness so solid that we rarely perceive the emotions they generate as fluid. We feel "betrayed when trust is violated". We are "hurt " because we "expect fairness". The feelings generate such a strong response that sometimes lifetimes are destined and directed on such events. Somehow not only do we not question the existence of such abstraction, but we also expect the existence of such solid concreteness in our children. We teach them to respect the egos of others. We teach them lessons that are completely abstract such as 'treat people fairly', 'don't hurt others', etc. In actuality, life by such humanly devised measures appears completely unfair but they are asked to be fair. They are told not to hurt others, what goes around comes around, etc. completely authenticating the existence of ego unrelated to life's other dimensions. <br/> <br/>We cannot have it both ways, we cannot teach our children a number of commandments and expect them to have a relationship with nature. The commandments whether followed or rebelled would create a world of its own - a world of thought and knowledge which will create its illusory reality in which man is given a role to play rather than be a play in nature.</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

nothingnu 2006-05-14T21:08:57Z nothingnu http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/68f0cfe7-f8e3-4972-aa2d-503355307ba2 2006-03-24T01:54:52Z 2006-03-24T01:54:52Z

<div>The sight and sounds deafening the senses and yet they remain unawakened, unaware, and unresponsive. Difficult to be when one does not feel be-longed and impossible to be when one does feel belonged, for then, one takes on the identity of the belonged. Can one be a fly on the wall? Watching not just things happening outside, but also within.. This feeling of non-belonging and the want of that. . And yet realizing that it is not what one really needs .. How much energy does the body devote to belong? The belonging is always in time and an unsuccessful imitation but deep down we realize that once we have the want we are in time and we can only have relationships in time with separate things; no one knows how to reach the timeless. The timeless reaches us. <br/> <br/>What is that makes a human feel belonged, related, and connected? We certainly seem to have a need and demand that. Certainly language is a seeming pointer to this belonging but a pointer to something beyond.. it isn’t the delight of sharing a language but seemingly a pointer to something else. When it is taken for granted and not questioned, then other things become more important but when one cannot rely on any relationship with a human being, then language takes enormous importance. Such was perhaps, the case with my encounter right now with the gentleman from Panama. Shy and hesitant, he waited for the whole journey until he got the nerve to talk to me and even when he realized that I was not what he anticipated, i.e., from Costa Rica (even though my tshirt stated that) he seemed so happy that he could break his loneliness by sharing with some one his life account. <br/> <br/>Language gives way to sharing one’s ideas and thoughts and current living and this kinda sharing simply makes one feel good – more than physiological needs, I reckon. This is why human beings decided to hangout in groups and even if future society makes interdependency irrelevant in the physiological world, this psychological need will become a glaring eyesore. <br/>Just like language and culture makes one feel included, there is also the other side of feeling excluded when the desired and requisite sharing is not attained. We transmit to others how much sharing we have done with them through the acquisition of language skills, particular knowledge of the culture, accent, the way we move about and are. This message is received by the other and for the requisite amount of shared values, we are reciprocated with acceptance and a belonging feeling from the other. A tiny lack in such cultural sharing will always hang as a threatening device ready to expose us or immediately withdraw our membership. So within sharing lies the seed of separation. </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

nothingnu 2006-03-24T01:54:52Z nothingnu http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/98875a2f-cc3e-41ba-82f5-2f1f6c2de3e3 2006-03-06T21:11:35Z 2006-03-06T21:11:35Z

<div>We have somehow made the heritage of humankind's knowledge of this planet not only an institution but a requirement for living. We believe that if we don't have the proper knowledge for nutrition, medicine, and other things in life, we will somehow either die very early or live a life of seemingly poor quality. As evidence to convince ourselves, we point to poor countries of the world which do not have access to this knowledge. <br/> <br/>Now as an individual, what does such a belief do to one's psyche? It creates fear and desperation to acquire this knowledge or be attached and dependent upon ones that have such knowledge. As if it is the knowledge of life that will keep one going and life itself is devoid of such intelligence. We have cut ourselves off from the force of life and entrusted our lives in a distilled, dead, abstract concept of life which we hope will tell us how to live. Does this make any sense? <br/> <br/>Of course, one is not implying that research into diseases must stop - that should go on but one is trying to illumine the nature of a society so desperately attached to knowledge where a huge population needs pills to sleep, work, be happy or just be - without the burden of their own minds. <br/> <br/>It is interesting to note that this complete trust, while it may have brought freedom from polio, TB, etc., it has also created a tremendous insecurity where a mutation of a virus (anything new) in a fowl or a mammal (birdflu or madcow) creates not only physical insecurity like the past but also psychological insecurity of a kind seemingly unprecedented in human history. Because the trust is on a dead thing - knowledge rather than life itself. Nothing is anticipated or expected from the intelligence of life, it is as if a machine without intelligence and yet any new thing that life springs on is feared. The savior is determined to be knowledge that will decode the program of the machine (life) and until that is done, there is only fear, gloom, and worry in the destiny of man. Since knowledge is the savior and the hard fact is that some things are not known at any given time, the urge to know as much as possible in as short of a time as possible creates a pressure within which itself blinds observation creating further complications. <br/> <br/>On the other hand, if trust is in life, not in the sense of an abstract caretaker or a personal custodian but in the sense of a communion that one is not separate from that which ails oneself and what one determines via knowledge as the possible cause of illness is a distillation of something that one does not truly understand or hope to understand; one can take tentative steps with humility in coming up with possible remedies understanding that in the final analysis, it is life flowing through us and around us that gives us consciousness to judge, fragment, categorize, separate and in fact it itself is intelligence - not a machine that operates on rote that can be toyed with the human intellect. <br/> <br/>So the demand the human intellect may make of a prolonged or a particular quality of life is all in some ways childish for how do we truly know what bearing on the planet does our demand for a life span of 75 or 100 years have? And does it make sense to call knowledge the savior, if it does give us what we demand but in the process the planet accelerates to annihilation? <br/> <br/>So really the actual fact is that of nature which is both us and outside of us. One can study and observe and participate in it since one is that but one cannot isolate an aspect of nature, namely, the human intellect and demand subservience of all to it. It simply is crazy!</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

nothingnu 2006-03-06T21:11:35Z TomatoTom http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/68043081-7368-4d31-b17b-0f307e42ead6 2006-01-05T01:02:28Z 2006-01-02T19:04:09Z

<div> <br/>I searched for a Krishnamurti tribe... and couldn't find any when I "word searched"... <br/>so... <br/>I started a new tribe based on discussions of J Krishnamurti's work and words. <br/>tribes.tribe.net/krishnamurti <br/> <br/>and then ran across this one... <br/>I hope to join in here, and hope that some may join in there as well... <br/> <br/>Thanks <br/>Tomato... <br/></div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 2 replies </div>

TomatoTom 2006-01-02T19:04:09Z nandaG http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/fb551701-13e0-4ec0-8308-b53a3cf8ef47 2005-07-25T18:21:24Z 2005-04-28T06:49:06Z

<div>A few months before I began reading Krishnamurti, I had started practising vipassana, (a buddhist technique of meditation) <br/> <br/>http://www.dhamma.org/ <br/> <br/>vipassana.tribe.net <br/> <br/>Although K denounces any form of 'meditation', I have to say that Vipassana and K's thoughts are absolutely similar. I feel that reading K has made me understand vipassana better. <br/> <br/>I happened to watch a video on this issue of similarity between vipassana and K' teachings sometime last year. it was a discussion between K and a buddhist monk from Sri Lanka (walpola Rahula, if i remember right). <br/> <br/>any other opinion on this??? <br/>any other philosophy out there that is strikingly similar to K's??? <br/></div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 3 replies </div>

nandaG 2005-04-28T06:49:06Z bullybutterfly http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/45d64ae9-ce9f-4876-8712-012b693dd5d7 2005-07-11T06:10:25Z 2005-04-16T07:01:23Z

<div>-a few good sites for "newbies"!!- <br/> <br/>A short introduction to Krishnamurti <br/>bernie.cncfamily.com/k_intro.htm <br/> <br/>Krishnamurti Foundation of America <br/>www.kfa.org <br/> <br/>Welcome to The Teachings of J.Krishnamurti International Website <br/>www.jkrishnamurti.org </div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 1 reply </div>

bullybutterfly 2005-04-16T07:01:23Z nandaG http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/1163c742-b27a-4b7f-98a6-5fb9ce69ca2a 2005-04-18T17:43:02Z 2005-04-17T21:11:03Z

<div>Well, when I joined this tribe thing, one of the first things that I searched was for tribes for JK, and was mighty surprised that I could'nt find any. and of course I had to start one right away. but then I was worried that nobody might make it here. So I searched for Krishnamurti in all of the postings and managed to get hold of a few names and mailed the first few people. I guess that answers your qn Mark9+!!! <br/> <br/>But I am aslo excited that atleast on person has made it to the tribe on her own(i suppose). welcome bullybutterfly!! <br/>I am sure we'll have more. <br/> <br/>I grew up in chennai(madras) where JK spent quite a few years of his life. although I was familiar with the name, I wasnt exposed to his teachings until recently. <br/> <br/>being lonely in foreign place, can do a lot of things to you. I was lucky that it pushed me to search. although the search hasn't ended yet, reading JK was a big step. Every line that I read was a revelation, a revelation that fit in so perfectly as an answer to my search. There is not a single word that is out of place, or not necessary. <br/> <br/>Of course after reading JK, I have stopped reading about philosophy or spirituality, even JKs works. It doesnt real make any sense to read anymore. atleast for now, thats how I feel about it. <br/> <br/>welcome again, and share your thoughts <br/>love <br/>Nanda</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 3 replies </div>

nandaG 2005-04-17T21:11:03Z nandaG http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net/thread/54691919-a983-4a45-a96c-267a15f5773e 2005-04-15T06:18:38Z 2005-04-15T06:18:38Z

<div>I am eagerly waiting for the lecture on may 1. could not get more relevant to my circumstances than this!!!.</div> <div> posted in <a href="http://jkrishnamurthi.tribe.net">J.krishnamurti</a> - 0 replies </div>

nandaG 2005-04-15T06:18:38Z