"Without the understanding of pleasure you will never be able to understand love. Love is not pleasure. Love is something entirely different. And to understand pleasure, as I said, you have to learn about it. Now for most of us, for every human being, sex is a problem. Why? Listen to this very carefully. Because you are not able to solve it, you run away from it. The sannyasi runs away from it by taking a vow of celibacy, by denying. Please see what happens to such a mind. By denying something which is a part of your whole structure - the glands and so on - by suppressing it, you have made yourself arid, and there is a constant battle going on within yourself.
As we were saying, we have only two ways of meeting any problem, apparently: either suppressing it or running away from it. Suppressing it is really the same thing as running away from it. And we have a whole network of escapes - very intricate, intellectual, emotional - and ordinary everyday activity. There are various forms of escapes into which we will not go for the moment. But we have this problem. The sannyasi escapes from it in one way, but he has not resolved it; he has suppressed it by taking a vow, and the whole problem is boiling in him. He may put on the outward robe of simplicity, but this becomes an extraordinary issue for him too, as it is for the man who lives an ordinary life. How do you solve that problem?"
"Love Is Not Pleasure" - The Book of Life (November 22)
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India
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Tue, January 23, 2007 - 9:44 AMthis is a very complicated topic. asmost of the topics treated by Krishnamurti. i have a very intelectual mind. and i try to solve my problem through it. and sometimes, specially at the core of many problems this is not usefull. balance is usefull, and balance is very misterious -
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Sat, February 17, 2007 - 11:05 PMDo what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
What!? Complicated??? what is more simple then the relationship between love and Truth? The one who is thinking these thoughts is itself a thought, sooooooooo, who am "I"? Obviously not this thinker, this one with it's endless desires that never quite catch up with them'selves.' From complexity one cannot get a clear perspective, from complexity one cannot SEE simplicity, yet from simplicity apparent complexity is no longer complex. It is all a matter of vantage point. when ones 'i'dentity is as a disconnected fragment the pursuit of pleasure feels feels very worth while. This is a very very complex situation. From a boundless, negation of all definable tendencies the question of complex/simple does not arise, as no thing does. This is true simplicity. Perhaps the speaker is a bit eccentric, don't be persuaded by him (doubt any'one' is anyway). Reasons supreme task is to reason itself out. There is no mystery to balance, gimme a brake. Spontaneous, sure, mysterious, how so? Where your looking from, is what your looking with. Balance runs deeper than action/non action. Before all you know, or think you know, it cares not about our opinions, our perspectives colouring the world already coloured by our senses. Balance has it's substitute just like all virtues, another form of control, leaving us in bondage. Abstain, indulge, find balance, all the same. Balance can't be found, balance was never lost if a+b+c=0.
Love is the Law, Love under Will.
777
-Sri David Template Kant
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Sat, February 17, 2007 - 11:15 PMWhen we shun our ego that is when we start to love until then its just a word to most of us. -
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Sun, February 18, 2007 - 9:06 AMWhen we shun it? Or when we understand it? Wouldn't shunning the ego just be more suppression? What is the the ego? Isn't it just a self-image we create out of our desire for security? -
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Sun, February 18, 2007 - 5:18 PMVery true when we understand it. Shunning off is better then understanding to me atleast. When we were born there was no ego ,we have acquired ego is the process of growing up and then the moment of assoication with things is the point where one learns about ego. There is good ego and bad ego and always the bad ego has edge over good one.The struggle in world is overcome the bad ego.That is why there are ways spiritual ways,religious ways. When one has a way that is nothing but extension of ego your bad ego.To overcome ego one don't need ego. But a pure heart and empty mind. Empty mind which doesn't have concept about things, opinions about things but direct experience and that experience is dispoed off at the end of the day."When there is no expectation for returns that is true Love". According to J.K. Love isn't pleasure ,he is refering to sex, I guess .When sex is one way that is pleasure and there is two way then thats love.Without expectations,enjoy what you get from your spouse is love. I think . Love meansnot loving your spouse,children or parents. Love means when you see yourself in others thats true love. -
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Sun, February 18, 2007 - 7:16 PMI don't know about love not being pleasure or expectations. I suppose both of those are the mind projecting an image of what it wants and then pursuing that image, which means you can't really *see* or *know* the actual person, you're just seeing the image you've created that gives you a feeling of security. But I think it might be better to just be aware you're doing that, don't you think? Rather than the mind trying to change the mind and ending up like a dog chasing it's tail. -
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Sun, February 18, 2007 - 7:57 PMBut I think it might be better to just be aware you're doing that, don't you think? The if's and but's will not help cause of an individual. You being optimist is cool.
Rather than the mind trying to change the mind and ending up like a dog chasing it's tail. I am not here to change a mind or you either.
One can not know is it a image or actual person ,until one knows oneself.Knowing oneself is no popping a pill but moment to moment thing.
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Mon, February 19, 2007 - 7:58 PMDo what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
shun a mental phantem? Read much Murti? Walk up to the rainbow, illusion? It is very real, just not what it appeared to be. Call it what you will, 'Light on mist' etc.. The discription is not the described, the thinker is the thought. There is no- thing to shun. Don't take my word for it. The sun ray is not seperate from the Sun that sent it. The 'ego' is a mental construct, it took years of conditioning to cultivate its reflexes, While Love, in the truest sense of the word as a pointer obviousy cannot be cultivated. Murti was repellled by organized religion for a reason, for it taught sepression rather than a sharp clear mind that can negate the unreal, and SEE mental abstractions from a place of clarity. When one has Let go of prejedices, not through some new method offered for a certain price, and not through some act brought about through indulgence OR abstainance, only then can One look upon WHAT IS.
Love is the Law, Love under Will.
777
-Sri David Template Kant -
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Mon, February 19, 2007 - 8:05 PM'I', not I, replied to an earlier post before 'I' read the rest , you totally explained your'self'.
-Namaste -
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Re: Love Is Not Pleasure
Mon, February 19, 2007 - 8:16 PMI am ,I am
You are you.
who needs kant
or Murti
when there is clearity.
Love is love
and this is known by few
Defintion and concept
will not help.
Superficial are most men.
Its difficult to simple
and easy to be difficult
being simple means
no desire no express or use words.
Note:-I post on this tribe because its there.
Otherwise I prefer least posting and have no desire to be smart or whatever.
Words leads to words,more words. In the whole process innoncence is lost.
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